[Powderworks] Early demo?
David Spalding
gobuffs92@netzero.net
Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:54:24 -0500
Not to mention the "controversial" Dave Matthews Band "Lillywhite sessions",
named after producer Steve Lillywhite, that were going around in the USA on
Napster (and the like) a year ago. DMB recorded an entire album and then
decided that the songs were too dark so they scrapped it and recorded a
whole new set that was a big departure from their earlier work with a new
producer and released those as their latest studio album (and made a big
splash about the band's "change of direction"). Then the scrapped songs
popped up on Napster as one of the most popular downloads and they were
outraged (one member said he "felt like his soul was stolen from him"), even
though they were playing some of the songs in concert anyway and the
bootlegged performances were also going around and they talked about
including some of these songs in their live album (an idea that was later
scrapped).
The released album sold many copies and the "illicit" songs were actively
traded and downloaded. Just shows that when you have rabid fans, they want
to get their hands on anything that they can, legal or not. These days,
it's harder to "control" what recordings get out to the public. I'm not
sure if that's good or bad. On one hand, it's increasing the band's appeal
to its most ardent fans, but on the other hand, the artists don't get paid
for their work and recordings that are not necessarily to the artists'
standards are freely flowing.
Just another story and opinion...
DS
----- Original Message -----
From: <mwoods@customfleet.com.au>
To: <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
>
> Hmm, I detect a bit of patronising language. Andrew, I do understand the
> difference. It's not hard. If the band didn't want them in the public
> forum, it is regrettable that this has come to pass. But, oh well. You
can
> maintain a good and just perspective if you have never played nor traded
> the demos, otherwise a couple of e-mails from concerned patrons of the
band
> is not going to stop a booted event from unfurling in the public domain.
> This is what I was discussing. What does anyone hope to achieve with
> strong arm language on this list? Not a great deal I would suggest. I'm
> coming to the defence of someone who saw a boot and regarded it as just
> that and not the holy grail it is made out to be. As a result, he was
> berated publically. Once it's out, it's too late. This was the thrust of
> my mail, Andrew.
>
> The Oils are in pretty good company! There are bootlegs of Beatles, Beach
> Boys, Stones studio demos. They are nothing new. I'm sure they weren't
> particularly keen about it either, but fans have been enlightened and
> enhanced by being able to access it. You are falling into the trap of
> suggesting that because a live boot is 'nothing new' it is OK. Not
> neccessarily. The studio boot preceeds the live boot. Ever heard of the
> Beach Boys great unreleased album from '67 that got out? Or the version
of
> Get Back? Using your logic of antiquity, these are OK? A live event was
> never intended to be recorded or else they would have recorded it! It was
> for the ticket paying patrons only, not intended at all for wider
> distribution. Can you tell this list (if you have a copy of the thing)
> that you have NEVER made an extra copy of the Red Sails demos?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Lane, Andrew" <Andrew.Lane@experko.chh.com>@cs.colorado.edu on 22/02/2002
> 11:59:42
>
> Sent by: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu
>
>
> To: "'mwoods@customfleet.com.au'" <mwoods@customfleet.com.au>,
> "'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
>
>
> michale, mate it is very simple, you are confusing public performances (be
> it of unreleased songs or not) with private studio recordings, can you not
> see the difference here? all justin is saying is that the studio demos
are
> not for distribution (according to the bands wishes), live bootlegs are
> nothing new, there were people in the audience when they happened so it is
> public! understand what i'm saying?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mwoods@customfleet.com.au [mailto:mwoods@customfleet.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 22 February 2002 13:18
> To: 'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'
> Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
>
>
>
> If you bait me for comments, I'll comment!
> 1. it will very difficult to enquire of the band in each instance if a
> bootleg is 'approved'. I am, however, happy to head up a de facto
approval
> committee if everyone would like to forward me their collections. Do we
> assume 'approved' unless otherwise informed?
> 2. the Capricornia stuff is STILL unreleased in Australia and we are
> swimming in boots containing versions of these as they were worked out
> live, some in a lessor state of readiness than the red sails demos!! No
one
> was concerned about those and they were uploaded to the web!! Will it
kill
> album sales? Did the band approve in May 2001? We didn't know then what
> was intended for release.
>
> No one has any 'right' to any bootlegged material and I would suggest the
> artist would be happier if NONE of it existed. The reality is that it
does
> and there's no point trying to police it once it's out and coming over all
> heavy, particularly to a small list of dedicated fans, some of whom will
> take the line that seeing as it is known the band is upset about this
> particular boot, will proceed to throw it in the bin (anyone?). Others
> will continue to trade regardless taking the broader view that it's REALLY
> small beer. Some will elect to enjoy it, but not trade it or do so by
> taking an integrity check of the recipient, thus keeping it small beer as
> has happened thus far, but it's only a matter of time before someone puts
> it up in the public forum. An error of judgment there, but an inevitable
> one. But is the tiny magnitude of it all worth kicking up a stink when a
> lot of us trade like the clappers? If the band was that embarrassed by
it,
> they'd do like a certain celebrities father and try and buy up every copy
> of a certain video.....
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Justin H" <justinh@jeack.com.au>@jeack.com.au on 23/02/2002 07:31:49
>
> Please respond to justinh@jeack.com.au
>
> Sent by: justinh@jeack.com.au
>
>
> To: mwoods@customfleet.com.au, "'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'"
> <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
>
>
> Question away - The blatently obvious distinction between theses demos and
> the
> standard bootlegging is that 1/ the band disapproves of this demo being
out
> and 2/ it contains unreleased material.
> Anymore comments Michael?
> Justin
>
> >
> >Dear fellow fans
> >So, we must now cease all trading. Some find it offensive. There are
> >respectable and non-respectable bootlegs, and I'm afraid that trading
> >doesn't work that way. None of it's respectable!! There's no 'degrees'
of
>
> >illegitimacy when it comes to bootlegging. Anyone that has a bootleg is
> >stealing. It was stolen off the desk, stolen off the airwaves, stolen
> with
>
> >a hidden mic, the 6 disc tree going around was stolen by some
enterprising
>
> >individual at a gig seeking to enjoy the event later on and allow others
a
>
> >glimpse. None of it was made by the band with public distribution in
mind
>
> >or, like the Grateful Dead, the band would have a 'tapers' section at
> gigs.
>
> >We get into this knowing that nothing comes close to the real thing live
> >and the boot is but a messy letter written about the hot and steamy event
> >you missed. It's too late folks, the gate is open and the horse has
> bolted!
>
> >There is a fair amount of trading going on involving this band and if the
> >band had the popularity now that they had in 1990, these demos would be
> >available at Camden Markets and on cheap Asian imports. How did this
> stuff
>
> >come to light? It found its way to fans of the band who traded it along
> >with other recordings of illegitimate origin, seeing no distinction. And
> >now these same traders want to stop it here, 'before it gets out of
hand?'
>
> >Are these same traders of noble extraction standing by while others
> >download MP3s and pass them off as audio boots? Yep, that's helping the
> >band. There are some demos of the first album kicking around too. Are
> >these taboo as well? I think this reeks of 'I have something precious
and
>
> >you can't have it...' A lot of people have been enjoying the full show
> >Capitol Theatre I brought into circulation in 2000. It was taped by a
> >friend of mine off 2JJ for personal enjoyment and it was used in this
> >fashion for many years until I coaxed it out of him. He asked me to take
> >it easy as the show has a lot of strong personal memories. I traded it
> >with a few and then it pops up on websites, ftp sites and the like.
Thats
>
> >the nature of the beast. However, as a result, and to more than offset
> the
>
> >pain, we both have a pile of good stuff to enjoy and some fine
connections
>
> >with other like minded folks.
> >
> >BTW I have the demos and they make for fascinating listening. Show me a
> >major band that doesn't have a boot of demos kicking around that fans are
> >able to enjoy and wonder at how this unit of amazing musicians works the
> >magic of taking a seed and spawning a flower of rare beauty. Did they
> want
>
> >it to happen? Has it damaged their reputation or earning potential? This
> >voyeuristic appreciation and admiration is where my interest begins and
> >ends and if there would be those who would deny me that pleasure, I now
> >question you in this public forum.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Justin H" <justinh@jeack.com.au>@cs.colorado.edu on 23/02/2002 04:29:41
> >
> >Please respond to justinh@jeack.com.au
> >
> >Sent by: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu
> >
> >
> >To: "Maurice R. Kelly" <mkelly@deadheart.org.uk>,
> > "'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
> >cc:
> >Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
> >
> >
> >Sorry for the late reply, but, TAKE IT OFF!!! This was not made for
public
>
> >distribution
> >and as Travis has already said, its only out there because someone stole
> >it.
> >If you cant get it off I will personally take it up with the band.
> >Justin.
> >
> >I expect a reply ASAP with good news.
> >
> >
> >>I'm not sure what to do about this. I put it up there to share with
fans,
>
> >>in the same way that we've been putting up copies of bootlegs and rare
> >>b-sides, etc. I've got other "early versions" on CDs distributed by
> >>Powderworkers in the past - okay these were early live versions, but
they
>
> >>were still raw, and under-developed.
> >>
> >>I didn't put the song on the FTP site to humiliate the band. I put it
> >>there because I thought people would appreciate the evolution of a song.
> I
>
> >
> >>know I do.
> >>
> >>I'm not going to remove it. If anyone is strongly against it, they can
> >>bombard me, or take it into their own hands and remove it. I don't even
> >>know if I'm able to delete it.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>--
> >>Maurice R. Kelly
> >>mkelly@deadheart.org.uk
> >>
> >>
> >>On Feb 21, mwoods@customfleet.com.au wrote:
> >>
> >>> They wouldn't be in circulation if people weren't trading them to
begin
>
> >>> with. Unauthorised live recordings are somehow more respectable than
> >>> unauthorised studio snatch n grabs?
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Travis Zanoni <TravisZ@actf.com.au>@cs.colorado.edu on 21/02/2002
> >10:23:54
> >
> >>>
> >>> Sent by: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To: "'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
> >>> cc:
> >>> Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Early demo?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maurice I really think that loading it onto the web is a bad idea and
a
>
> >tad
> >
> >>> disrespectful to the band. The Red Sails demos only got out because
> >>> someone, somewhere...maybe at the studio they were recorded, stole a
> >copy.
> >
> >>> The band don't want them out there....if they wanted you to hear
> >>> it...they'd
> >>> release it.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Maurice R. Kelly [mailto:mkelly@deadheart.org.uk]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:03 PM
> >>> To: powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >>> Subject: [Powderworks] Early demo?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> An Oils collector just mailed me an MP3 of what he says is an early
> >>> demo (1983) - it certainly sounds like the Oils - very raw though. The
> >>>
> >>> wderworks mailing list
> >>> Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >>> http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Powderworks mailing list
> >>> Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >>> http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Powderworks mailing list
> >>Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >>http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
> >>
> >>
> >http://www.jeack.com.au
> >_______________________________________________
> >Powderworks mailing list
> >Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Powderworks mailing list
> >Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> >http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
> >
> >
> http://www.jeack.com.au
>
>
>
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