[Miron Mizrahi]

> I reckon that it's always good to have these sort of 
> debates/discussions as 
> part of the forum. However, I believe that George "Dubya" Bush's 
> current 
> "war on terra" has got sweet f-a in common with any conflict up to

> and 
> including World War II.

agree (on the "it's always good to have these sort of
debates/discussions") so here we go. not so sure I agree with f-a,
probably "not so much" would be more accurate.

> 
> I realise that this is an often recurring theme on this mailing 
> list, 
> however, I believe that the US of A has got a lot to answer for
when 
> it 
> comes to this current round of the US military using up its excess

> arsenal 
> on whatever bogeyman's turn it is, i.e. Bin Laden, Iraq, 
> Phillipines, etc.

yes and no. the US has nothing to answer for. it is the 800 pound
gorilla and fact of life, like it or not, they can do whatever they
bloody well want. any country or group of people would have acted in
exactly the same manner if they had been in the same position of
power. no need to go far. look at monopolistic businesses today or
the old colonial forces in the past. we must also consider the
following:

1. many parts of the world, many countries and many groups of people
owe a fair deal to the US. it is very easy to like the US when you
need them and slam them when you don't. if everyone else is so
opportunistic, why do we expect the US to behave differently? 
2. it is true that in some cases the US forced its own intervention
but in the majority of them they had full cooperation of a vested
local party. more often than not, some local thug who thought
nothing of raping and pillaging and killing his own people (or maybe
some other people who happens to share the same land) for his own
benefit. if the local population has any grudges to bear they should
start at their own first.

what the US (or rather the American people) must do however is to
understand the consequences of their actions and realize that it
cannot come with 0 cost to them. this is not to say they "deserve"
or "don't deserve" them. 

> 
> For a group such as Al Qaeda, the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, or any

> other 
> militant organisation for that matter, to form, they are more
often 
> than not 
> provoked into being. Since 1949, the United States has been
involved 
> in 
> nearly every conflict involving both government sanctioned and 
> boycotted 
> militant activities in the 'Second' and 'Third' World.
> 
> From the Congo, Vietnam, Columbia, Chile, Nicaragua, Panama,
Haiti, 
> Cuba, 
> South Africa, Uganda, Burma, Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia, etc., the

> might of 
> the US military-industrial complex has found a reason to sustain
its 
> profits 
> at the expense of millions of innocent civilians and unwilling 
> soldiers.

for anyone thinking that Bin Laden, or any other such individual is
provoked into being - I have news for you. they are not. BL does not
care for muslims, or arabs or saudis or anyone else for that matter.
he is a megalomaniac who cares only about himself. if he truly did
care for all he claims to, he'd start multi-denominational schools
in the palestinian refugee camps or fund cottage industries in rural
Indonesia - he has enough money and the charisma to raise more. the
only problem is that he is exactly like those he wishes to topple,
most of all, leaders of his own muslim/arab world. he uses the
ignorance of the people to raise support for his cause. Saddam does
the same thing and in a manner of speaking so does Bush. BL is a
21st century Hitler. he has an agenda, he will use any means to
fulfill it - lies and propaganda leading the charge. I can see why a
hungry, poor uneducated aphgan buys it. as for us, "educated"
westerners......


> 
> The current haphazard looting of Afghanistan by British, American 
> and other 
> 'Allied' forces is just another example of western 'democracies' 
> failing to 
> understand and recognise the reactions that their self-imposed 
> 'freedoms' 

the fact that we are all affluent and free enough to have access to
the internet and have this debate should really prevent us from
putting quotes around democracy and freedom. let's give respect
where respect is due.


> produce in the inhabitants of many of these countries. For groups 
> such as Al 
> Qaeda to prosper and seemingly succeed against the might of the US

> military 
> should not surprise anyone who has bothered to read a history
book.
> 
> Also, the United States should realise that both on the domestic
and 
> international fronts, they are waging an illegal war. For a war to

> occur, it 
> strictly must be between two nations. What the US is currently 
> pervading is 
> a Gestapo style global police force that no-one in the western 
> hemisphere 
> has the guts to stand up to.

or that no one else wants to. let's face it - it is much more
convenient to have a bigger target than us. 


> 
> Domestically, many of the laws on 'homeland security' introduced 
> since the 
> Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 are actually in contravention of up
to 
> 13 
> Amendments in the US Bill of Rights. Scary stuff.

what is scary here? the fact that the law contravenes the
constitution or the fact that the constitution might need to be
amended? this is something I never understood about how Americans
view their constitution. everyone eagerly points out how this law
and that law are in violation of an amendment to the constitution
but the fact that the constitution was amended in the 1st place seem
to go un-noticed. for some odd reasons, Americans expect their govt.
to solve all their problems with 0 cost to and 0 impact on them. we
want security and we want our civil rights intact. we want the cake
and we want to eat it too. guess what? it is not working formula.
there are no free lunches and everything has a price. 

at the end of the day, the US govt. is a reflection of its people,
and Americans are a reflection of humanity. the sad truth is that
mankind is not much different than the animals it so often drives to
extinction. we might be more intelligent and more educated but we
are still animals. we don't care much for anything beyond our
immediate surroundings and are rarely willing to commit any
significant sacrifices for the benefit of others.


> 
> Things to think of, I guess, when dramatic anniversaries such as
the 
> bombing 
> of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occur...


could not agree more

happy debating to all.


=====
Miron

It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
(Midnight Oil)

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