I agree with you Dan.
RM, I think you need to relax a little mate. You went pretty hard on someone
that just wanted a live show. You made it sound like he was about to start
copying real CD's and selling them for a profit. There is absolutely NO
damage whatsover from trading an unreleased live show within this list. We
are not a shop or a business. We are friends that love the Oils. You say you
"will champion the musicians interests". Maybe you can articulate what
their interests are? I am a musician, and I speak on behalf of just about
every muso I know, there is nothing more in a muso's interest then for
people to love and listen to their music. Go and have a look at Metallica's
site, there are heaps of free live shows, avaialable for anyone to download
- NO CHARGE. Why? Because they want their fans to enjoy their music. Its
not always about money mate. I have no shame in saying the Oils have made
their fair share of money out of the music industry, and good on them. I
don't think anyone of us should feel guilty about sharing a live show.
------------------------------
Re: Trading materials ... was "Bootlegs"
<http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/powderworks/message/5511;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZzA3OHA4BF9TAzk3NDkwNDMyBGdycElkAzE0NDQzMDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTc0MDAzMDAxOARtc2dJZAM1NTExBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMjI5NzUwMDg-> Posted
by: "Dan Brunner" dmanwi@yahoo.com
<dmanwi@yahoo.com?Subject=+Re%3A%20Trading%20materials%20%2E%2E%2E%20was%20%22Bootlegs%22> dmanwi
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/dmanwi> Thu Oct 2, 2008 1:02 pm (EST) I must
disagree with you regarding trading live material. I haven't heard of any
lawsuits regarding the trading of unreleased live material.
This list for years was used as a venue for trading shows with no problem.
There were also discussions regarding the bands stance on it and I don't
think any definitive conclusions were made.
Dan
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, RM <m2k8@liveonthe.net <m2k8%40liveonthe.net>> wrote:
From: RM <m2k8@liveonthe.net <m2k8%40liveonthe.net>>
Subject: Re: [powderworks] Re: Trading materials ... was "Bootlegs"
To: powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au <powderworks%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Cc: "hooperadrianr" <hooperadrianr@yahoo.com <hooperadrianr%40yahoo.com>>
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 7:29 PM
As stated about 6 months ago, trading certainly commercial materials is
considered contraband. Trading recordings of materials that are not
available for sale and have never been on sale is considered "lawyer's
discretion", and people making such trades are taking serious legal and
financial risks. I say this and make the statements that I do to
legitimately "transfer the risk" (that is a legal term) from being the
list owner's responsibility to the people doing trading. The list
owners and moderators don't read every line of every email, nor do we
read every subject line, so if people offer to trade materials during
the life of the list, the owners/moderators can't be considered
responsible for deals that happen unnnoticed. Now if you wave it in our
faces, we are fully aware of what you are doing and the activity will be
considered more thoroughly.
Legal precedent is that rampant theft of IP on the Internet is a target
for litigation. If you want to paint a target on yourself you are
welcome to, but don't paint one on the Powderworks list. This list was
started as an honourable fan list, and trading show recordings was not
acceptable in the early decade of the list's life. Fundamentally
trading is more likely to be illegal than legal, so if there's going to
be a debate it will take a music industry lawyer's signed statement to
convince me that trading recordings is legal. I personally have always
swayed in favour of paying the ferryman (I have no copyright materials
that I do not own the store-bought CD/DVD of) and while I am charged
with the survival of this list I will champion the musicians' interests
and those of their chosen support structures (the music industry they
signed up to) in favour of others' lifestyle preferences.
That should clarify things. If not then we'll can explore options that
can best meet the needs of the various interested parties.
RM
hooperadrianr wrote:
I must admit, I'm a bit confussed.
Didn't we just have a fairly lengthy discussion on this site in the
past few weeks about trying to ascertain whether the '81 Tanelorn
festival was filmed or recorded? Didn't that discussion spin off from
a question about the existence of recordings (ie bootlegs) from '76
%'77? Haven't there been countless offers to "weed" & "seed" booltegs
through this group (including obvious fan compilations like the
Anthoilogy vids)? Do we not think for a second that if any of these
as yet unavailable shows suddenly surfaced we wouldn't all be
clamoring to get our hands on copies?
I agree, the copying and trading of commercially available releases is
a contraband topic and not condoned, but come on, weeded bootlegs have
been distributed through this list.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory but I am confused. Could you please
clarify? Thanks
Adrian
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