[Powderworks] More on untrained singers
Beth Curran
bcurran@columbus.rr.com
Sat, 17 May 2003 09:31:19 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C31C57.1635C160
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
At 12:52 PM 5/16/03 -0400, Bruce Robertson wrote:
Greetings Cyber Chums,
Regarding Damien's comments about rules in music, or how to poke a
cornered wombat with a sharp stick:
Without rules of some sort to begin with, then isn't improvisation
meaningless? Charlie Parker's playing wouldn't be described by many as
sterile and lifeless, and it was his ability to transcend the form while
remaining rooted in it that was his particular genius was it not?
I think the rules are always implied in any genre. That's what makes
creativity possible, and improv. interesting. Otherwise it's a
cacophony, which may have its place in a general category of
'interesting sounds' or within music to add colour or quality. But I
question whether musical creativity is even possible without some kind
of discipline within which to work and from which to depart.
I agree too much formal training can suck the life out of any musician.
But I'd give my ear lobes for the chops of some of those classically
trained cats, or those old time jazz players.
I'm no musician, but I am an amateur artist, and I completely agree with
you. I've been working in an artist's guild for about 4 years and have
learned so many foundational skills that now I can tell how to break The
Rules properly, instead of just doing it willy-nilly. Am I making any
sense? Maybe this is why I prefer to listen to the PG type voices -
what we hear with the best rough singers isn't mere anarchy, but a
departure from The Rules, done in a consistent way, which produces a
coherent individual style more pleasing to those of us who thrive on
broken Rules (imagine that, he he he).
I sound like a freakin' mathematician or something. Must be yesterday's
outing to Cedar Point, my brain is still ringing like a bell. No, I did
NOT ride that awful new 420-foot 120 mph monstrosity - but I did figure
out how it works, truly an amazing piece of engineering. - Beth
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C31C57.1635C160
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document>
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C31C57.129D5860">
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name=3D"time"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name=3D"date"/>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.SpellE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-spl-e:yes;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
At </span></font><st1:time Hour=3D"12" Minute=3D"52">12:52 PM</st1:time> =
<st1:date
Month=3D"5" Day=3D"16" Year=3D"2003">5/16/03</st1:date> -0400, Bruce =
Robertson wrote:<br
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Greetings Cyber Chums,<br>
<br>
Regarding Damien's comments about rules in music, or how to poke a =
cornered
wombat with a sharp stick:<br>
<br>
Without rules of some sort to begin with, then isn't improvisation =
meaningless?
Charlie Parker's playing wouldn't be described by many as sterile and =
lifeless,
and it was his ability to transcend the form while remaining rooted in =
it that
was his particular genius was it not?<br>
<br>
I think the rules are always implied in any genre. That's what =
makes
creativity possible, and improv. interesting. Otherwise it's a =
cacophony, which
may have its place in a general category of 'interesting sounds' or =
within
music to add colour or quality. But I question whether musical =
creativity is
even possible without some kind of discipline within which to work and =
from
which to depart.<br>
<br>
I agree too much formal training can suck the life out of any musician. =
But I'd
give my ear lobes for the chops of some of those classically trained =
cats, or those
old time jazz players.<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m no musician, but I am an =
amateur
artist, and I completely agree with you.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>I’ve been working in an artist’s guild for about 4 =
years and
have learned so many foundational skills that now I can tell how to =
break The Rules
properly, instead of just doing it willy-nilly.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Am I making any sense?<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Maybe this is why I prefer to =
listen to
the PG type voices – what we hear with the best rough singers =
isn’t
mere anarchy, but a departure from The Rules, done in a consistent way, =
which
produces a coherent individual style more pleasing to those of us who =
thrive on
broken Rules (imagine that, he <span class=3DSpellE>he</span> <span =
class=3DSpellE>he</span>).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I sound like a <span =
class=3DSpellE>freakin</span>’
mathematician or something.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> =
</span>Must be
yesterday’s outing to Cedar Point, my brain is still ringing like =
a
bell.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>No, I did NOT ride =
that awful
new 420-foot 120 mph monstrosity – but I did figure out how it =
works,
truly an amazing piece of engineering. <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>- =
Beth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C31C57.1635C160--