Midnight Oil

[Powderworks] Capricornia promos on ebay

Jeff Bond Jeff Bond" <jeffbond@mindspring.com
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:02:01 -0500


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Gabe,

Thanks for thinking outside-of-the-box on this issue. =20

Anyone who's ever purchased used records or CD's (regardless of whether =
it's on eBay or your local second-hand shop) has come across promo =
issues like this.  In fact, some of the best MO recordings are =
promo/demo releases.  This list has often discussed MO's "Green Disc", =
which is listed as "Demonstration - Not For Sale", not to mention the =
"Blue Sky Mining Interview Disc" and "Best of the B-Sides".  I'm still =
looking for a "Diesel and Dust Interview Disc".  And let's not forget =
how these CD's get to the resale sites, anyway - - the folks who first =
received them - - the record shops, local rock critics, and radio =
stations - - who make their living off of the recorded music industry.

Sorry for the rant.  Happy Valentines Day.  Jeff
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Gabriel Luci=20
  To: Michael Devall ; powderworks@cs.colorado.edu=20
  Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Powderworks] Capricornia promos on ebay


  How about giving them away?

  --- Michael Devall <mdevall1@nc.rr.com> wrote:
  >      Just a reminder that in the United States
  > promotional items such as
  > promo CDs cannot be traded or sold legally.  The
  > same thing goes for bootleg
  > items.  It has to do with this thing called
  > copyright infringement.  I
  > believe such actions are considered felony offenses
  > under federal law, and
  > penalties can be severe if you are caught which may
  > include prison time and
  > of course a criminal record.  THIS IS NO JOKE.=20
  > Always think first.
  >      As for music promotions, some BMG labels suck
  > at promoting artists.
  > CMC International Records, which is a lesser known
  > label located here in the
  > Raleigh-Durham area, is a prime example.  They have
  > such classic rock
  > artists as Lynyrd Skynyrd, Styx, Tommy Shaw, Molly
  > Hatchet, Ratt, Blue
  > Oyster Cult, Nazareth and many other artists of such
  > stature.  The only new
  > albums of these artists that I've known promoted by
  > CMC International were
  > "Twenty" by Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Heaven Forbid" by Blue
  > Oyster Cult and "Seven
  > Deadly Zens" by Tommy Shaw.  Such albums like "The
  > Silent Reign Of Heroes"
  > by Molly Hatchet and "Brave New World" by Styx which
  > I thought were pretty
  > good were never really promoted.  RCA Records and
  > Arista Records, which are
  > the largest record labels through BMG, usually do
  > pretty good in music
  > promotions.  Our other record label here in the
  > Raleigh-Durham area, Mammoth
  > Records located in Carrboro, is also a very good
  > promoter.  They have our
  > popular local band The Squirrel Nut Zippers, plus
  > Seven Mary Three and Los
  > Lobos.  Mammoth Records is through WEA though, not
  > BMG.  Usually the larger
  > labels are the better promoters, but of course that
  > is not always the case.
  > Promotions depend not just on the label, but also
  > the producer, the
  > management, and the artists themselves.  But the
  > main thing that most
  > everything revolves around including music is always
  > going to be this
  > >> $$$.  Isn't politics wonderful?  TTFN...  Sorry
  > Peter, I meant to send
  > this message to the list, not just one person.
  >=20
  > Michael
  >=20
  >=20
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: "Peter Scott Poitras"
  > <pete.poitras@the-spa.com>
  > > To: <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
  > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:07 PM
  > > Subject: RE: [Powderworks] Capricornia promos on
  > ebay
  > >
  > >
  > > > Sigh.
  > > >
  > > > Funny how Liquid 8 is killing auctions.  They
  > certainly don't seem to be
  > > > taking the time to promote.  A bunch of us
  > filled out their form to be
  > > > volunteers to help hype the album/tour, and here
  > the album is supposed
  > to
  > > be
  > > > out in a week and we have heard NOTHING.  Also,
  > shows are being
  > announced
  > > > and on sale, and no contact either.
  > > >
  > > > And they freak and cancel auctions when the
  > promos were already taken
  > out
  > > of
  > > > circulation?!?  I understand that's not
  > necessarily the point of a
  > promo,
  > > > but then again, if they were being used at all,
  > they wouldn't be on eBay
  > > in
  > > > the first place.  I know, spoken as the guy who
  > was the high bidder on
  > the
  > > > Golden Age single...  :-(  And as we see from
  > Jon's message, cancelling
  > > the
  > > > auction has led to a giveaway, which isn't
  > helping the promotion either.
  > > >
  > > > Anyways, I'll go back to my cave.
  > > > Pete
  > > >
  > > > -----Original Message-----
  > > > From: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu
  > > > [mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu]On
  > Behalf Of Helstad, Jonathan
  > > > R APX
  > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:06 PM
  > > > To: 'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'
  > > > Subject: [Powderworks] Capricornia promos on
  > ebay
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Fellow Powderworkers:
  > > > You might find the message below interesting.
  > Liquid 8 has started
  > killing
  > > > auctions of Capricornia promos on ebay. Anyways,
  > I'll be getting the
  > promo
  > > > tomorrow from this guy free-of-charge because he
  > wasn't able to sell it
  > on
  > > > ebay! Cheers! Jon
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:53 PM
  > > > Subject: WARNING: eBay AUCTION REMOVED - VeRO
  > PROGRAM
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > We regret to inform you that your auction:
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >  Midnight Oil "Capricornia" promo advance CD
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > has been ended at the request of Liquid 8
  > Records, a member
  > > > > of eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO)
  > Program, because
  > > > > they filed a sworn statement that it offers a
  > product or contains
  > > > > material which violates their copyright,
  > trademark or other
  > > > > rights.  In the interest of protecting all
  > eBay users, we end
  > > > > such auctions to avoid any association with
  > potentially
  > > > > infringing or unlawful items.
  > > > >
  > > > > We understand that sometimes mistakes can be
  > made.  If
  > > > > you feel your auction was ended in error,
  > contact the VeRO
  > > > > Program Member directly by emailing them at
  > kdooley@liquid8records.com.
  > > > >
  > > > > Of course, eBay is available to answer
  > questions, but since only
  > > > > the rights owner understands their products
  > and policies, we
  > > > > encourage you to contact them first.  If we
  > agree a mistake has
  > > > > been made or the VeRO Program Member notifies
  > us, we will
  > > > > allow you to relist the item.
  > > > >
  > > > > We also understand that even if your item is
  > infringing, you may
  > > > > have been unaware of that fact, and may have
  > listed the item with
  > > > >  the best of intentions.  Unfortunately, even
  > if this is so, you still
  > > > > could face potential liability, so ending the
  > auction is still
  > > necessary.
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >   All Bidders have been notified and any
  > associated
  > > > > fees have been credited to your account.
  > > > >
  > > > > **Keep in mind that listing of prohibited,
  > questionable or infringing
  > > > > items, or the re-listing of ended items
  > without the approval of eBay,
  > > > > can result in your suspension from eBay.
  > > > >
  > > > > Thank you for your cooperation.
  > > > >
  > > > > Regards,
  > > > > Lynn (whyended@ebay.com)
  >=20
  =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D


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<DIV>Gabe,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for thinking outside-of-the-box&nbsp;on this issue.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Anyone who's ever purchased used records or CD's (regardless of =
whether=20
it's on eBay or your local second-hand shop) has come across promo =
issues like=20
this.&nbsp; In fact, some of the best MO recordings are promo/demo=20
releases.&nbsp; This list has often discussed MO's "Green Disc", which =
is listed=20
as "Demonstration - Not For Sale", not to mention the "Blue Sky Mining =
Interview=20
Disc" and "Best of the B-Sides".&nbsp; I'm still looking for a "Diesel =
and Dust=20
Interview Disc".&nbsp; And let's not forget how these CD's&nbsp;get to =
the=20
resale sites, anyway - - the folks who first received them - - the =
record shops,=20
local rock critics, and radio stations - -&nbsp;who make their living =
off of the=20
recorded music industry.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Sorry for the rant.&nbsp; Happy Valentines Day.&nbsp; Jeff</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dgluci@yahoo.com href=3D"mailto:gluci@yahoo.com">Gabriel =
Luci</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dmdevall1@nc.rr.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:mdevall1@nc.rr.com">Michael Devall</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dpowderworks@cs.colorado.edu=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:powderworks@cs.colorado.edu">powderworks@cs.colorado.edu</=
A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 14, =
2002 1:22=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Powderworks] =
Capricornia=20
  promos on ebay</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>How about giving them away?<BR><BR>--- Michael Devall =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:mdevall1@nc.rr.com">mdevall1@nc.rr.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Just a reminder that in =
the=20
  United States<BR>&gt; promotional items such as<BR>&gt; promo CDs =
cannot be=20
  traded or sold legally.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; same thing goes for =
bootleg<BR>&gt;=20
  items.&nbsp; It has to do with this thing called<BR>&gt; copyright=20
  infringement.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; believe such actions are considered =
felony=20
  offenses<BR>&gt; under federal law, and<BR>&gt; penalties can be =
severe if you=20
  are caught which may<BR>&gt; include prison time and<BR>&gt; of course =
a=20
  criminal record.&nbsp; THIS IS NO JOKE. <BR>&gt; Always think=20
  first.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As for music promotions, =
some BMG=20
  labels suck<BR>&gt; at promoting artists.<BR>&gt; CMC International =
Records,=20
  which is a lesser known<BR>&gt; label located here in the<BR>&gt;=20
  Raleigh-Durham area, is a prime example.&nbsp; They have<BR>&gt; such =
classic=20
  rock<BR>&gt; artists as Lynyrd Skynyrd, Styx, Tommy Shaw, =
Molly<BR>&gt;=20
  Hatchet, Ratt, Blue<BR>&gt; Oyster Cult, Nazareth and many other =
artists of=20
  such<BR>&gt; stature.&nbsp; The only new<BR>&gt; albums of these =
artists that=20
  I've known promoted by<BR>&gt; CMC International were<BR>&gt; "Twenty" =
by=20
  Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Heaven Forbid" by Blue<BR>&gt; Oyster Cult and =
"Seven<BR>&gt;=20
  Deadly Zens" by Tommy Shaw.&nbsp; Such albums like "The<BR>&gt; Silent =
Reign=20
  Of Heroes"<BR>&gt; by Molly Hatchet and "Brave New World" by Styx=20
  which<BR>&gt; I thought were pretty<BR>&gt; good were never really=20
  promoted.&nbsp; RCA Records and<BR>&gt; Arista Records, which =
are<BR>&gt; the=20
  largest record labels through BMG, usually do<BR>&gt; pretty good in=20
  music<BR>&gt; promotions.&nbsp; Our other record label here in =
the<BR>&gt;=20
  Raleigh-Durham area, Mammoth<BR>&gt; Records located in Carrboro, is =
also a=20
  very good<BR>&gt; promoter.&nbsp; They have our<BR>&gt; popular local =
band The=20
  Squirrel Nut Zippers, plus<BR>&gt; Seven Mary Three and Los<BR>&gt;=20
  Lobos.&nbsp; Mammoth Records is through WEA though, not<BR>&gt; =
BMG.&nbsp;=20
  Usually the larger<BR>&gt; labels are the better promoters, but of =
course=20
  that<BR>&gt; is not always the case.<BR>&gt; Promotions depend not =
just on the=20
  label, but also<BR>&gt; the producer, the<BR>&gt; management, and the =
artists=20
  themselves.&nbsp; But the<BR>&gt; main thing that most<BR>&gt; =
everything=20
  revolves around including music is always<BR>&gt; going to be =
this<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt;&gt; $$$.&nbsp; Isn't politics wonderful?&nbsp; TTFN...&nbsp;=20
  Sorry<BR>&gt; Peter, I meant to send<BR>&gt; this message to the list, =
not=20
  just one person.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michael<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
&gt; -----=20
  Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "Peter Scott =
Poitras"<BR>&gt; &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:pete.poitras@the-spa.com">pete.poitras@the-spa.com</A>&gt;=
<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; To: &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:powderworks@cs.colorado.edu">powderworks@cs.colorado.edu</=
A>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:07 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: =
RE:=20
  [Powderworks] Capricornia promos on<BR>&gt; ebay<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sigh.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Funny =
how=20
  Liquid 8 is killing auctions.&nbsp; They<BR>&gt; certainly don't seem =
to=20
  be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; taking the time to promote.&nbsp; A bunch of =
us<BR>&gt;=20
  filled out their form to be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; volunteers to help hype =
the=20
  album/tour, and here<BR>&gt; the album is supposed<BR>&gt; to<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
  be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; out in a week and we have heard NOTHING.&nbsp;=20
  Also,<BR>&gt; shows are being<BR>&gt; announced<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; and =
on sale,=20
  and no contact either.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; And they =
freak and=20
  cancel auctions when the<BR>&gt; promos were already taken<BR>&gt; =
out<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; circulation?!?&nbsp; I understand that's =
not<BR>&gt;=20
  necessarily the point of a<BR>&gt; promo,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; but then =
again, if=20
  they were being used at all,<BR>&gt; they wouldn't be on eBay<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
  in<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; the first place.&nbsp; I know, spoken as the guy=20
  who<BR>&gt; was the high bidder on<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Golden Age=20
  single...&nbsp; :-(&nbsp; And as we see from<BR>&gt; Jon's message,=20
  cancelling<BR>&gt; &gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; auction has led to a =
giveaway,=20
  which isn't<BR>&gt; helping the promotion either.<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; Anyways, I'll go back to my cave.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Pete<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; From:=20
  <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu">powderworks-admin@cs.co=
lorado.edu</A><BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; [mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu]On<BR>&gt; Behalf =
Of=20
  Helstad, Jonathan<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; R APX<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: =
Tuesday,=20
  February 12, 2002 6:06 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:'powderworks@cs.colorado.edu'">'powderworks@cs.colorado.ed=
u'</A><BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; Subject: [Powderworks] Capricornia promos on<BR>&gt; =
ebay<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fellow =
Powderworkers:<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; You might find the message below interesting.<BR>&gt; Liquid =
8 has=20
  started<BR>&gt; killing<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; auctions of Capricornia =
promos on=20
  ebay. Anyways,<BR>&gt; I'll be getting the<BR>&gt; promo<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
  tomorrow from this guy free-of-charge because he<BR>&gt; wasn't able =
to sell=20
  it<BR>&gt; on<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; ebay! Cheers! Jon<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
  &gt; Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:53 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Subject:=20
  WARNING: eBay AUCTION REMOVED - VeRO<BR>&gt; PROGRAM<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
  We regret to inform you that your auction:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
  &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; Midnight Oil "Capricornia" =
promo=20
  advance CD<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
  &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; has been ended at the request of Liquid =
8<BR>&gt;=20
  Records, a member<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; of eBay's Verified Rights =
Owner=20
  (VeRO)<BR>&gt; Program, because<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; they filed a =
sworn=20
  statement that it offers a<BR>&gt; product or contains<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
  material which violates their copyright,<BR>&gt; trademark or =
other<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; &gt; rights.&nbsp; In the interest of protecting all<BR>&gt; =
eBay=20
  users, we end<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; such auctions to avoid any =
association=20
  with<BR>&gt; potentially<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; infringing or unlawful =

  items.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We understand =
that=20
  sometimes mistakes can be<BR>&gt; made.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; you=20
  feel your auction was ended in error,<BR>&gt; contact the VeRO<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; Program Member directly by emailing them at<BR>&gt; <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:kdooley@liquid8records.com">kdooley@liquid8records.com</A>=
.<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Of course, eBay is available to=20
  answer<BR>&gt; questions, but since only<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the =
rights=20
  owner understands their products<BR>&gt; and policies, we<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
  &gt; encourage you to contact them first.&nbsp; If we<BR>&gt; agree a =
mistake=20
  has<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; been made or the VeRO Program Member=20
  notifies<BR>&gt; us, we will<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; allow you to =
relist the=20
  item.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We also understand =
that=20
  even if your item is<BR>&gt; infringing, you may<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; have=20
  been unaware of that fact, and may have<BR>&gt; listed the item =
with<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; the best of intentions.&nbsp; Unfortunately, =
even<BR>&gt;=20
  if this is so, you still<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; could face potential=20
  liability, so ending the<BR>&gt; auction is still<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
  necessary.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
  &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; All Bidders have been notified =
and=20
  any<BR>&gt; associated<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; fees have been credited =
to your=20
  account.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; **Keep in mind =
that=20
  listing of prohibited,<BR>&gt; questionable or infringing<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
  &gt; items, or the re-listing of ended items<BR>&gt; without the =
approval of=20
  eBay,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; can result in your suspension from =
eBay.<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thank you for your =
cooperation.<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Regards,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Lynn (<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:whyended@ebay.com">whyended@ebay.com</A>)<BR>&gt; =
<BR>=3D=3D=3D message=20
  truncated=20
  =
=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________<B=
R>Do You=20
  Yahoo!?<BR>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://greetings.yahoo.com">http://greetings.yahoo.com</A><BR>___=
____________________________________________<BR>Powderworks=20
  mailing list<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu">Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu</=
A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks">http://w=
ww.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
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