Midnight Oil

[Powderworks] Midnight Oil and Politics

Felipe Castillo escrutador@language.proz.com
Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:56:53 -0700 (PDT)


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Powderworks
Stand in line
Profiteers
No time for games
Knife's edege
Brave faces
Armistice day
Someone else to blame
Written in the heart
Lucky country
Short memory
Read about it
US Forces
Power and the passion
When the generals talk
Best of both worlds
Minutes to midnight
Helps me helps you
Bedlam bridge
Forgotten years
Mountains of Burma (Myanmar)
My country
Truganini
Tell me the truth
Common ground
Sins of omission
Redneck Wonderland
Blot
White skin black heart
Drop in the ocean
Say your prayers


So, might this lits be about Midnight Oil without politics?


Take it easy american workers!


See you around!


escrutador



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Today's Topics:

   1. Byron gig - HELP!? (Matty S)
   2. Man, I go on a short vacation . . . (Jeff Bond)
   3. Capitol Theatre VCD Weed (Frosty)
   4. Dates (Jane R)
   5. Re: Byron Bay shows (mpien)
   6. Re: wonder what Peter thinks is "justice for the
       guilty" (Maurice R. Kelly)
   7. Cap Theatre VCD Weed closed (Frosty)
   8. RE: I'm never coming back to this board again. (Greg Ralls)
   9. Re: OT you had/have it coming america (Margaret Benzer)
  10. Music and patriotism (The May Home)

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Message: 1
From: "Matty S" <bus2bondi@hotmail.com>
To: powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:51:50 +1000
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>Hi everyone</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm writeing this mail outta desparation, maybe someone close to the band or with contacts can help me out. I really wanna get into this byron gig but the reality is i'm gunna on e month short of 18 wen its on. So i don't wanna drive all the way from bris to byron not to get let in if they decide to check for id. is there ANY way i can possible get to these 2 gigs?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanx </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENAU/c144??PS=47575'>Click Here</a><br></html>

--__--__--

Message: 2
Message-ID: <009201c24353$d7c73b20$8beba218@nc.rr.com>
Reply-To: "Jeff Bond" <jeffbond@mindspring.com>
From: "Jeff Bond" <jeffbond@mindspring.com>
To: "powderworks" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:31:29 -0400
Organization: at home
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Subject: [Powderworks] Man, I go on a short vacation . . .
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. . . and a genuine flame-throwing, epithet-spewing, list-quitting =
free-for-all breaks out!

Remember, this list represents a wide-ranging age group that is =
multi-dimensional, multi-national, multi-ethnic, and multi-talented.  In =
many cases, our only common bond is MO music.  Every time you spout an =
opinion on this list, be it about the Oils, or an interpretation of a =
song, or whatever, you stand a real good chance of having someone =
disagree.  You stand a decent chance making someone really pissed-off.

I'd like to add another item to Kiri's list:  politics, sex, religion, =
and money.

I'd like to thank Miron for pushing some recordings around for the =
benefit and enjoyment of all.

I'd like to state that I hate lists like Total Guitar "best guitarists =
of all time", because my tastes are unique and individual, and I don't =
give a damn about what a poll or a group of experts says.  Anyway, any =
guitar player list that doesn't include Jim or Martin, or Adrian Belew =
is just plain wrong.

I'd also like to state that while we were on vacation, my 12-year-old =
son "borrowed" my copy of Capricornia and kept it the whole time.  So, =
Beth, there's hope for my younger generation, yet!

And, I've not unsubscribed from the list.

Rgrds, Jeff

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>. . . and a genuine flame-throwing, epithet-spewing, list-quitting=20
free-for-all breaks out!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Remember, this list&nbsp;represents a&nbsp;wide-ranging age group =
that=20
is&nbsp;multi-dimensional, multi-national, multi-ethnic, and=20
multi-talented.&nbsp; In many cases, our only common bond is MO =
music.&nbsp;=20
Every time you spout an opinion on this list, be it about the Oils, or =
an=20
interpretation of a song, or whatever, you stand a real good chance of =
having=20
someone disagree.&nbsp; You stand a decent chance making someone really=20
pissed-off.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to add another item to Kiri's list:&nbsp; politics, sex, =
religion,=20
and money.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to thank Miron for pushing some recordings around for the =
benefit=20
and enjoyment of all.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to state that I hate lists like&nbsp;Total =
Guitar&nbsp;"best=20
guitarists of all time", because my tastes are unique and individual, =
and I=20
don't give a damn about what a poll or a group of experts says.&nbsp; =
Anyway,=20
any guitar player list that doesn't include Jim or Martin, or Adrian =
Belew is=20
just plain wrong.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'd also like to state that while we were on vacation, my =
12-year-old son=20
"borrowed" my copy of Capricornia and kept it the whole time.&nbsp; So, =
Beth,=20
there's hope for my younger generation, yet!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>And, I've not unsubscribed from the list.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Rgrds, Jeff</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message: 3
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:44:35 +1000
From: Frosty <chris_frost@optushome.com.au>
To: Powderworks <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
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Subject: [Powderworks] Capitol Theatre VCD Weed
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Hi All,

In keeping with the spirit of giving (and to distract us from the
increasingly Non-Oils posts of late!) I'm offering a copy of the Capitol
Theatre 82 VCD gig to the first 3 workers who reply privately. I'll only
reply to the winners.

If you wish to trade for other Oils VCD's or Cd's, your welcome to get in
contact too. 

Frosty


--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Jane R" <bunge91@hotmail.com>
To: powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:58:19 +1000
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Subject: [Powderworks] Dates
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Hi Everyone,
Some more Australian Dates have been confirmed on the official site. Check 
it out.

Cheers,
Jane



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


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Message: 5
Message-ID: <002401c24370$0b3c6220$a637cecb@m>
From: "mpien" <mpien@froggy.com.au>
To: "Nathan Arrowsmith" <mrnoisy@iprimus.com.au>,
   "Powderworks" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
References: <MCBBIBMIBFHJCOAEBAELIEFMCBAA.mrnoisy@iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Powderworks] Byron Bay shows
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:53:21 +1000
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Have you got the number of the hotel so I can ring and book tickets Nathan?
Do you know any cheap & decent accomodation in Byron?

Mark.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Arrowsmith" <mrnoisy@iprimus.com.au>
To: "Powderworks" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: [Powderworks] Byron Bay shows


> The Byron gigs have been reduced to 2.
> Thu 3 & Fri 4 October. $25.00 + $2.00 BF.
> I got my tickets yesterday.
> Nathan.
> _______________________________________________
> Powderworks mailing list
> Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
> http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
>


--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:20:57 +0100 (BST)
From: "Maurice R. Kelly" <mkelly@deadheart.org.uk>
To: Scott Williams <jwilli16@san.rr.com>
cc: Powderworkers <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>,
   "jussihk@kolumbus.fi" <jussihk@kolumbus.fi>
Subject: Re: [Powderworks] wonder what Peter thinks is "justice for the
 guilty"
In-Reply-To: <007301c2432b$63e98be0$3b12d2cc@san.rr.com>
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On Aug 13, Scott Williams wrote:

>
> "Do you think anyone is interested in reading garbage like that? If you hate someone, mail him, not the list."  ---- Jussi

I fully stand behind Jussi on this. As far as I'm concerned, you just
dropped to the lowest level possible in my book - by concluding an
argument with "fuck you." I listened to a lot of your arguments earlier in
the thread, and was impressed with your reasoning, until now.

I respect the fact that many lost their lives in the terrorist attacks
which occured in the United States on September the 11th, 2001. But what
I'd really like to see is people move on from it.

Yes, it was an attrocity, but I find myself repulsed by the morbid way in
which these attacks were referred to as simply 9/11, or September 11th. I
think it's symptomatic of a nation who don't want to move on - and what
worries me is that the attrocity will be used as justification for a lot
more things than the invasion of Afghanistan.

I live in Northern Ireland. I'm 24 years old. Almost my entire life I've
lived with the threat, and the results of terrorism. Whilst we've never
had an attrocity on the scale of the attacks we're discussing in this
thread, Northern Ireland has seen it's fair share of attocity (as has
mainland Britain.) One life, or three thousand lives. It's always a
tragedy.

Maybe it's sad, but whilst I have seen much tragedy in my life, the thing
that amazes me the most about my country (right or wrong, eh?) is that
fact that we move on. We don't forget. We still refer to the events
(Bloody Sunday, the Omagh Bombing, the Remembrance Sunday Bombing to name
but a small few) but we don't become overly fixated with it.

I don't believe that the US had it coming. In fact, while the US was the
point of attack, I believe the target was the world itself. The US is such
a dominant culture, that it is the logical figurehead to strike at. There
is no better way to demoralize people than to take away their leader -
because let's face it, in many respects, the US drives the rest of the
world, and where they go, we go too.

I certainly feel bad for those people who died, and the people they
left behind. But it really is time the entire world fought back. Not
by invading other countries or any military means, but by bouncing back -
not getting lost in grief. Those attacks demoralized much of the world.
The economy was bad enough before the attacks, and I feel it is worse now.
Looks like the "mission" of those terrorists was successful.

I think it's time America held it's head up higher and overcame this. It's
time to stop the military action, and show the rest of the world that it
is still strong.

Sorry to have gone on so long. Thanks.

-- 
Maurice R. Kelly
mkelly@deadheart.org.uk


--__--__--

Message: 7
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:25:48 +1000
From: Frosty <chris_frost@optushome.com.au>
To: Powderworks <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
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Whew, that was quick!

The Capitol theatre 82 VCD weed is now closed. Congrats to the winners.

Frosty


--__--__--

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Subject: RE: [Powderworks] I'm never coming back to this board again.
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:12:28 -0400
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Thread-Index: AcJDnJ9pQuiAzJRXTAWPAYjTEwWL2Q==
From: "Greg Ralls" <GregRalls@users.com>
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this place is very much about "midnight oil anymore".  i don't have alot =
of interest in the political stuff, so i just skim through it, or delete =
it...anyone can do that!  i don't see why you can't just delete what =
doesn't interest you, and move on to the oils stuff if that's what you =
wish.  no need to get all upset about the political debates & everything =
- just ignore it, if it's not of interest to you!  this is still the =
best place for oils talk, in my opinion.
=20
take care,
greg

-----Original Message-----
From: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu =
[mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu]On Behalf Of Dale Ortiz
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:19 AM
To: powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
Subject: [Powderworks] I'm never coming back to this board again.


I bet there are other Midnight Oil boards, where people don't start =
idiotic political debates about the US and the Taliban. This place isn't =
about Midnight Oil anymore. Good bye.
=20
                                                                     =
Dale "Ortiz"



  _____ =20

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : =
http://explorer.msn.com





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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; =
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt verdana">
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D420290914-14082002>this place is =
very much=20
about "midnight oil anymore".&nbsp; i don't have alot of interest in the =

political stuff, so i just skim through it, or delete it...anyone can do =

that!&nbsp; i don't see why you can't just delete what doesn't interest =
you, and=20
move on to the oils stuff if that's what you wish.&nbsp; no need to get =
all=20
upset about the political debates &amp; everything - just ignore it, if =
it's not=20
of interest to you!&nbsp; this is still the best place for oils talk, in =
my=20
opinion.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN=20
class=3D420290914-14082002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D420290914-14082002>take=20
care,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN =
class=3D420290914-14082002>greg</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu=20
  [mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dale=20
  Ortiz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:19 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  powderworks@cs.colorado.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Powderworks] I'm never =
coming=20
  back to this board again.<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>I bet there are other Midnight Oil boards, where people don't =
start=20
  idiotic political debates about the US and the Taliban. This place =
isn't about=20
  Midnight Oil anymore. Good bye.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  =
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Dale "Ortiz"<BR><BR></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <A=20
  href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A><BR>
  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Message: 9
Message-ID: <3D5A7523.DA7B796C@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:20:03 -0700
From: "Margaret Benzer" <benzer@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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To: Scott Williams <jwilli16@san.rr.com>
CC: fluw <fluwdot@earthlink.net>, powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: [Powderworks] OT you had/have it coming america
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Okay, I have had a couple of days to think about my response to this whole
debate and here it comes.

Scott, please clean up your language or YOU should be off this list.  I can't
believe that some people have to resort to such language to get their "point"
across.  Get out a thesaurus and learn some new words.  It's a book by the way,
not a dinosaur.

Tim, I agree with you.  I joined this list to discuss Midnight Oil.  But a
couple of years ago, this list came to comfort me when I was distressed by the
death of a young neighbor.  I can't believe how far this list has denigrated
into name-calling and country-bashing.  I have gotten some great CDs and videos
which I have also passed on.  It is a great community, but as with any group,
there are trolls and nitwits.  Unfortunately, this debate has brought a lot of
them out.

And for everyone else:  Lighten up!!  Midnight Oil is one of the best, if not
THE best, bands around.  What would they think about this kind of
name-calling?  Think about it.  Do any of you think they would be pleased with
us calling each other obscenities, saying "good riddance" to long-time fans?
Powderworks has been my favorite group that I am a part of.  Seeing how it has
fallen apart in the past few days has really hurt me.  Don't let this group
fall apart with in-fighting.  We can all have our differences in opinion, but
we don't need to tear each other's beliefs apart.

Now let's join hands and sing a few verses of "Kum Ba Yah".  If you don't know
the words, I can forward them to you. ;-)

Margaret


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Message: 10
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:06:12 -0700
From: The May Home <nearhoofmay@earthlink.net>
To: <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <B97FEA24.87C%nearhoofmay@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0208140951380.8256-100000@echo.ukshells.co.uk>
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Subject: [Powderworks] Music and patriotism
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I'm from the US and one of the things that's always interested me about
Midnight Oil is its up-front presentation of itself as an 'Australian band'.
In some of the interviews on the discs and tapes that I've seen, Rob or
someone talks about making Australian music, loving Australia, what a great
country it is, etc.  I've heard plenty of critical comments about Pauline or
other people/situations in Australia, but always this great love for the
country.  

I've tried to think before about American musicians/bands that have a
similar connection with the US and for some reason I have trouble.  Bruce
Springsteen comes to mind, not just for "Born in the USA" (one of the few
Springsteen songs I really don't like) but for a lot of his other music that
takes blue collar life and issues in the US seriously.  And we have lots of
overtly 'patriotic' country music (but that's another beast all together).

I've never been a particularly patriotic gal.  Being a member of one of the
historic peace churches in this country, I've been raised to be very
uncomfortable with a lot of what I think it means to be a citizen of a
country that does much of what my country does in the world.  When I've
traveled abroad, I have occasionally had very disturbing experiences when
people found out I was American.  At Taize one time, a whole room of folks
made this little 'oh' noise when I introduced myself and my nationality and
I thought, "ok...what the hell was THAT!  Was that the hatred for Americans?
Or the occasional and odd awe?  Or both. Or did they all eat something
funny?" 

So, my sense of my relationship with my own country is very conflicted.
About the only thing I feel free to love with abandon is the land.  When the
whole flag waving stuff started after September 11th, I felt pretty much
sick and disconnected.  I hate the way my country is approaching this whole
thing for so many reasons and I hate the new intolerance here that's like,
"if you don't want to wave your flag, if you don't want to talk about how
great America is, then move to Canada or something."  Could there be a more
historically ignorant approach to life in America?

All this is to say that I have never seen a strong love of country as a
particularly positive thing (please, excitable Americans, don't flame me
here).  And I wonder what an American band that was as much about being
American as Midnight Oil is about being Australian (or even U2 used to be
about being Irish) would look like to me and to others out there in the
world.  I've watched Midnight Oil, who I respect very much, be about this
very strong love of their country.  And I wonder what that looks like in
Australia.  What it means to be 'patriotic' in Australia (and in other
countries) and to have a relationship with your country.  How culturally
acceptable is it?  What does it look like?  I also really wonder what bands
or musicians appear to be very 'American' (purposefully American, not just
carriers or proponents of American culture) to you folks out there in the
rest of the world. 

I've always thought it somewhat ironic that I'm this person who is
profoundly uncomfortable with patriotism who's real musical passion is this
band that is actually very patriotic about their own country.  LOL.  Would
you all think of or describe the Oils that way (particularly you Aussies)?

Peace --
Sharon 
Phoenix, Arizona -- USA




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